You can tell when even sincere believers are scraping
the bottom of the barrel . . .

    You can tell when even sincere believers are scraping the bottom of the barrel when they must resort to every type of argument no matter how illogical they are to disprove 1 Timothy 2:4-6 and 1 Timothy 4:10. This is what 1 Timothy 2:4-6 and 4:10,11 says and then we will see what the baseless argumentation to back up what they say they are not saying . . .

    "God our saviour; Who will have all men (all humans) to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (5) For there is one God and one mediator between God and men (humans), the man Christ Jesus; (6) Who gave himself a ransom for all [humans], to be testified in due time."

    Author's note: Isn't it interesting that proponents of eternal torment love to quote the KJV when it fits their notions but they must make 1 Timothy 2:4-6 and 4:10 say that which the original author never intended. This is done in order to support their ideas.

1Tim.4:10: "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men (humans), specially of those that believe."

Such cases of scraping the bottom of the barrel award goes to these argumentations to try to prove that the above verses do not mean what God says they really mean:

1.  God wishes He could save all mankind.
2.  God desires to save all mankind.
3.  Saviour doesn't really mean saviour here, or it means      something different here than anywhere else in the Bible      since we are dealing with all mankind here.
4.  "all humans" or "all men" or "all mankind" really only means "all      sorts of men."
5.  "all humans" or "all men" of "all mankind" really means all      mankind but that it just means God wants to protect them from      starvation etc.

    I have seen all these arguments from those who bewlieve in eternal torment. Everyone of these believers agreed with all the above 5 points. But a close examination shows that they cannot all be correct.

    They have to make up their minds. Either it really does mean "all mankind" or it just means "all sorts of men." God either wants to protect just "all sorts of men" especially believers from hunger and nakedness etc. or He wants to protect all mankind especially beleivers from hunger and starvation etc.

    Why is it that God will have all humans to be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth? The answer is in verse 5 and 6. By using the word "For" Paul is making his case and giving the reason why it is that God will have all humans to be saved.

1.  There is one God.
2.  There is one mediator between God and man.
3.  Christ Jesus gave Himself a ransom for all [humans].

1.  Since there is just one God there are no opposing gods who can thwart God's will in the matter.
2.  Since Christ Jesus, gave himself as the ransom for all mankind is also the mediator between God and man, He will mediate as the One Who died for the sins of all mankind. The effect of this mediation can only bring about positive results.
3.  Since Christ Jesus gave himself the ransom for all mankind, all mankind have been loosed from bondage to sin and death and, based upon that, God will save all mankind.

    This shows a very definite eschatalogical salvation and not a namby pamby, weak willed, wet noodley type of "I really want to help you humans but you just keep Me from doing what I really want to do" type of theology.

    If the verses in question mean that God will just save all sorts of men, this is akin to dishonesty. This is like a court ordering a man to bring before the court all the documents from his office. The man goes to his office and says "Well they want ALL the files so I will just randomly take one file from each sort of one they want." He goes back to court and presents the judge with all the evidence he thought he could get away with. The judge however is not stupid and notices major gaps in evidence and asks him what happened to all the other files. Well, the man says, You said you wanted all the files so I thought I would make it fair and randomly pick a file from each sort whether or not is was good for my case or against it and you would have a fair sampling. Of course we all know what the judge would say to that! Thanks to Tom Talbott in his book: "The Inescapable Love of God" for that bit of wisdom!

    Do you think God will do any less in getting all He says He will have than what the judge would? Please don't say this is apples and oranges.

    Fact is that "God will have all humans to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth."

    If God is just the provider and sustainer of all humans especially of believers then He sure has done a bang-up job. Millions starve to death each year and millions die being exposed to the elements. thousands if not millions of babies die after being born. In effect this makes God no saviour either eschatologically nor the whimpy watered down version of 'soter'.

"God is the Saviour of all mankind [literally: all humans]"

Got it?

Tony Nungesser - Saviour of All Fellowship

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